Motherhood is an incredible journey filled with boundless love, tender moments, and the joy of watching our children grow.
Yet, in the beautiful chaos of raising a family, many moms grapple with an unwelcome companion—anxiety.
Whether it’s the constant worry about our children’s well-being, the pressures of juggling multiple responsibilities, or the ever-present self-doubt, anxiety can cast a shadow on what should be a joyful experience.
But fear not, dear moms, for this episode is dedicated to empowering you with practical strategies and a wealth of knowledge to help you overcome anxiety and reclaim your peace of mind.
In this episode, guest Lauren Cook shares:
- Increase in generational anxiety
- How comparison plays a role in anxiety
- Challenges that moms are presented with that can trigger anxiety
- How you can get the support you need if you are struggling with anxiety
- Warning signs and red flags
Get Registered for the Purpose Driven Mom Summit
Registration is officially OPEN for the Purpose Driven Mom Summit!
This summit was created to help you nail your routines and create a summer schedule that works for you as a busy WAHM!
We’ve got 26 incredible speakers with topics ranging from How to Create a Space to Work to How to Confidently Talk About Your Business in a Way That Converts to Growing Your Business & Your Marriage and more!
The summit kicks off on June 19th and will be 5 action-packed days that you won’t want to miss.
Dr. Lauren Cook is a licensed Clinical Psychologist, company consultant, author, and speaker. She integrates evidence-based tools from a systems lens and she speaks internationally, both in-person and virtually. Dr. Lauren owns a private practice, Heartship Psychological Services, serving all clients residing in California. You can connect with Dr. Lauren through Tik Tok, Instagram, her Brain Health Book Club, and through her podcast, The Boardroom Brain. Stay tuned for Dr. Lauren’s latest book, GENERATION ANXIETY—set to hit the shelves in Fall 2023.
Connect with Lauren
Links Mentioned in This Episode
- Book: Generation Anxiety
- Freebie: My Values Guide
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dr.laurencook/
- TikTok: https://email@example.com
- Freebie: In decision Guide
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Transcript of this Episode
Many times we find ourselves of loving life and feeling like motherhood is just filled with love and tender moments. And then we notice that we are starting to worry about our kids well being, and then the pressures of juggling, the responsibilities of motherhood and work, start to get a little bit hard. And then you have self doubt. And that’s when anxiety can really start to cast a big shadow on all of the fun that you are having with motherhood. Now, this doesn’t have to be your day to day. In this episode, I have a guest, Lauren Cook, who’s going to share with us some ways that we can get empowered, and not let anxiety take over or ruin our lives. She shares with us the increase in generational anxiety, how comparison plays a role in anxiety, the challenges that we face that are unique to mothers that really trigger anxiety, and how we can get the support we need if we’re really struggling with anxiety. So if you are someone that you love has been suffering from anxiety, this episode is for you. Now, if you’re new, Hey there, I’m Toni-Ann. I am the podcast host here at Real happy mom. I’m a working mom just like you. And this podcast exists for working moms who are super busy trying to juggle all the things and make progress with their big goals and dreams without pulling their hair out. And fun fact about me, I’m the oldest of three girls. Now if you have been dealing with anxiety, this episode is one that I know will help you. But before we jump into this episode, a really quick announcement, the purpose trip moms summit has started, it is not too late to join us. The summit is going to go on until this Friday. So make sure you head on over to Real happy mom.com/summit 2023 to go ahead and get registered for this free virtual summit that I know is going to help you with really making some changes so that you can be more productive and accomplish more during this time during the summer. Now let’s go ahead and jump on into this week’s episode.
I’m Dr. Lauren Cook. I’m a licensed clinical psychologist. I practice out here in California with my private practice. But I do a lot of speaking as well. I spend a lot of time with companies and universities to talk about how we can work with anxiety, whether that comes up in the workplace or as parents in our personal lives.
As a therapist, I know that you have seen and worked with people when it comes to stress and anxiety. So I wanted you to help us understand the difference between stress and anxiety. Because I know a lot of times we can kind of use the those words when they’re not the correct one. So help us with the differences.
Yeah, that’s a great question. You know, anxiety is actually the most common mental health diagnosis of any, there’s 40 million Americans who are experiencing anxiety. The difference really, you know, we all experience stress day to day anxiety is when it reaches that level where it starts to become debilitating, it starts to really become distracting, and it’s causing distress in our lives. So I often talk with clients about what we call the four DS and this can really help differentiate between what is feeling stressed and overwhelmed versus what something like a generalized anxiety disorder diagnosis or something like a social anxiety or panic disorder diagnosis, what we call the four DS The first is in fact distress. Are you really worried about your symptoms? Are you finding yourself ruminating a lot where the worrying feels out of control? You feel like you can’t stop thinking about it? Is it really causing problems in your life? That second piece is dysfunction? Are you not able to carry out the tasks that you need to do on a day to day, whether that’s helping take care of your kiddos showing up for meetings on time? If you’re finding you’re wanting to cancel everything all the time, that could be a cue that there could be some dysfunction happening. Third thing is deviance and what that means is, is there a deviance both from your norm and what we would see as maybe some norms expected societally. So if we think about a bell curve of the kind of those norms expected behavior, if you’re noticing, I’m struggling a lot more than I used to, this is definitely a change for me. Or you know what I look around and yep, we’re all struggling, but I’m finding I’m really struggling. I’m having a hard time getting out of bed, going to my appointments. I’m finding I’m tearful all the time. Those can be some cues. And the last one, I think this is really important to be honest about because this is where we see the most stigma in terms of talking about this. Are you noticing any sense of danger in your life? And what I mean by that is, are you feeling like you can’t keep yourself safe, or you’re worried about harming someone else? If you’re having those thoughts of, hey, I wish I didn’t have to wake up tomorrow and deal with my life. Or this is just too much. I feel like I can’t To handle this, I’m having real thoughts of hurting myself, or hurting someone else. This doesn’t mean there’s anything you know, wrong quote, per se with you, this means that you’re in distress and you need to get help for it. So I think it’s really important. We talk about that fourth D in the four DS, because a lot of times I do see folks struggling with that, but they feel a lot of shame to express that. So I think that’s important for us to talk about, too.
Yes, yes. And I’m so glad that you brought up those four DS, because that definitely helped clarify the difference between the stress and anxiety. And I’m glad that you talked about, you know, not feeling ashamed of those things. Because I think a lot of times, we tend to hide things and try to either cope with it or like, drag it off. It’s like, oh, it’s not that bad. Like, it’s okay. It’s okay. No, it’s not. Okay. So I’m glad that you’re making it okay for us to talk about it and share, you know, what our real feelings are. And the one thing that I really wanted to hear you talk about is this whole thing with this generational increase of anxiety, because I know that we’ve dealt with a lot, especially over the last like three years. So I just wanted to ask you first, like, why are we seeing so much of this increase in anxiety?
Yeah, I write about this a lot in my new book coming out generation anxiety comes out this fall. And I really wanted to look at the research behind that of why are millennials and Gen Z in particular struggling? So so much, because we’re seeing such an increase not only in prevalence, how common these diagnoses are, but severity, to the intensity of these symptoms, what I really found through the research, there are just so many things happening to us. There are a lot of things in our environment that are causing us significant stress. And we’re inundated right when we turn on the news. And we see that there’s been another mass shooting, or we see what’s happening in our economy. There’s a really interesting study the Stress in America survey that was done by the American Psychological Association, they do this on a pretty regular basis, the most recent one came out in 2022. And what they found is that 75% of young adults and millennials are included in that report that they feel unsafe in the US every single day. Wow. And yeah, when I heard that, that really perked my ears up. And you know, they say the number one source of stress is actually gun violence. 75% of people say that that is a significant source of of stress and anxiety. And I see this, especially for moms, right, because we think about this not only in our own lives, but when we’re sending our kids to school. This is causing people just like an emotional tartar, it builds up day after day. Now, what do we actually do about this, this is what I call in the book empowered acceptance. And it’s really a two pronged approach. First, it’s this acceptance piece, which so many of us, when we feel anxious, we want to avoid, right, we don’t want to look at these things we don’t want to acknowledge, we kind of want to put our head in the sand and say, Lalo, let’s pretend this is not happening. But but it is. And we have to take a very close look at this and not just turn the other cheek. But acceptance is not apathy, acceptance is not giving up. That’s why the other piece is empowered acceptance is this Supercharged approach where we come together, we do take action, we do feel like we’re doing something about it. That actually is what starts to ameliorate the anxiety because we feel like we’re not just totally powerless in these situations, we feel like we are taking action that helps us feel like we’re taking ownership of our lives more. And we’re not just letting these events just happen to us day by day. But I think we have to be real, like we certainly have many more stressors than we used to. And it’s been really hard over these last few years.
Yeah, absolutely. And as you were talking, I was, my mind was going back to, of course, with the pandemic, but you like totally, like reminded me of like, all of the other things that have been happening, especially with the issue of gun violence and mass shootings and things like that. That, honestly, that’s me putting my head in the sand. Everything’s okay. I just know, like, I just can’t with the news. Like, I just cannot, like do it. And I love the Empowered acceptance, because that definitely does help me to kind of lean into things, especially when I’m feeling anxious, but also, so that I’m not sitting over here thinking like, you know, everything’s okay when it’s not and I like how you said we got to be real with ourselves and, and definitely, with our feelings that we’re having too as well. Mm hmm.
Exactly. Exactly. And that’s something I write a lot about in generation anxiety too. Is that look, it’s okay to feel anxious sometimes it’s not Not so much about trying to make the anxiety go away, which I think is something we all tend to kind of want to do is, how do I make any unpleasant, uncomfortable feeling go away. And we can kind of pass this along to our kids too, right? Like, try and suppress, just pretend it’s not there. But then we can see and turn that we we and our kids start using these numbing behaviors, whether it’s hours and hours of social media binges and scrolls. And, you know, really, it’s learning, it’s okay that I feel anxious, I can still live a meaningful values based life, even with the anxiety there, it doesn’t have to stop me from living the life that I find most meaningful and most purposeful.
Definitely. Now, you brought up the Empowered acceptance, and I’m loving that. I’m just wondering, are there any specific challenges or pressure fears that you are seeing that are unique to motherhood that are affecting us, that isn’t helping to increase this anxiety that we’re seeing happening amongst a lot of mothers,
I feel this as someone becoming a new mom and myself, you know, I think for this generation in particular, that’s becoming parents or, or our parents, there is a lot of pressure to be all the things all the time, I was just talking about this with a client yesterday, and she was saying, Well, I read a study that if my child experiences any stress in utero, they’re going to be stressed for the rest of their lives. And we’ve talked about this actually comes from a therapist researcher named Winnicott, this idea of the good enough parent. And I think we got to come back to that a little bit that we’re doing the best we can, that it’s okay for us to not stick every landing all the time, is our kiddo fed clothes clean. That’s the star for the day, you know, and I think we can play so many pressures on ourselves as parents to try and do it perfectly. And I think a lot of parents, you know, especially over these last 1020 years growing up, many of us felt this pressure of such achievement, right? We got to try and get to the best school and get the best job and meet all these milestones and markers in our lives. And internal, a lot of people actually avoided having kids and are still avoiding having kids, about 40% of millennials and Gen Z say they don’t want to become parents, because they feel like it’s just too much pressure, it’s too difficult. And so I think we have to really start coming back to this idea that you don’t have to do it perfectly, it’s impossible to do it perfectly, and come back to the relationship at the end of the day. It’s about loving our kids, showing them what it looks like to have a good healthy close relationship so that they can then have that with others in their life as well. Taking some of that pressure off ourselves to give only organic food and have them in all the activities, all the things really coming back to this idea of being a good enough parent, and giving ourselves way more self compassion and grace.
And I love that. And I love the good enough parenting because I definitely have seen a lot of the pressure. And although I love social media, for the connection that it brings, I feel like it has definitely added to the pressure that you’re referring to. And at least for me, I’m gonna speak for myself. And I know, there was a period of time where I was doing pretty good, and but I still felt like it wasn’t enough, like I wasn’t, you know, you know, advancing enough in my career, or, you know, I wasn’t, you know, achieving certain milestones or doing certain things with my kids. And it was all because I was looking at what other people were doing instead of focusing on what I really wanted. And I remember vocalizing that to my mom one day saying like, Oh, no, like, you know, Becky from high school, like she’s doing like so much better than me. And she has this, this and this. And she was looking at me like, I had 10 heads and was like, you have all of those things to like, why are you trippin like, calm down? So I’m so glad that you talked about good enough. Because I think a lot of times we were thinking that, Oh, we have to strive to that perfection or whatever it is that we’re seeing, whether it be on social media or on TV, or even those around us, too. I know that you see a lot of moms in particular, and I’m just wondering, like, how you’re seeing it impacting or in xiety, in particular impacting moms that you are encountering?
Yeah, that’s a great question. You know, I see a lot of moms who just feel like it’s really hard to keep up with it all. And I love how you’re bringing up this piece about the comparison because I feel that too. I see this happen all the time, just this anxiety where Hear you have this little human whose heart is beating outside of yourself, talk about a situation you can’t control. It is really tough with parenthood. And I see a lot of people have that avoidant response, whether it’s they’re hesitant to get pregnant in the first place, because there’s so many uncontrollable factors. And then once that kiddo was born, there’s even more uncontrollable factors. And what’s really hard about that is when we feel anxious, what do we want, we want control. We want predictability, we crave it. And often it’s interesting, the harder we grip for control, the more actually out of control we can feel. And so that’s why I really try and teach folks this idea of acceptance of embracing the mess leaning into the vulnerability falling back in the hammock, if you will, doing that trust fall up. You know what, this is going to be messy, but I trust in myself that I’m going to be able to figure it out and cross the bridges I need to cross when it’s time to cross them. One of my favorite lines to give clients is comes from a supervisor, I had Dr. DT Brune, she would say all the time, worrying does not change the outcome. And when I heard that, that really stuck with me, and I think that applies with parenthood so much of the time, yes, we can take appropriate action as we can. But worrying ourselves sick about the 80% of things that the brain tells us we need to worry about that never actually come to fruition, is not serving us and it’s not serving our kiddos because our kiddos are then seeing Ooh, you may think that I can’t handle this. Or if I feel anxious, that means I’m not equipped to deal with whatever may come my way. And we really want to teach our kids this message of hey, you know what, it may be messy, it may not work out, we may in fact fail at something. And that’s okay, we can learn from it. It doesn’t have to break us. And so I think that mentality is really important to hold, not just for ourselves, but for our kids is we’re trying to model this for them to
absolutely, if you write up the mentality, especially I love that, too about worrying doesn’t change the outcome. And then you also talked about impaired acceptance as well. So these are definitely some great tools to have in the toolbox to help with dealing with the anxiety. But I was wondering if there was any other ways that you have found that are helpful, especially for moms to work through anxiety, if they’re struggling with that right now?
Yeah, those specific tools and interventions, I think are key. You know, I really come back to a lot of cognitive behavioral work CBT for short, and acceptance Commitment Therapy act for short. And DBT dialectical behavior therapy DBT. This is what we call kind of a third wave model in therapy, very evidence based and very tool based. So here’s what I’d recommend for folks to start out, know what your values are, you can get this freebie off my website, my values guide that people can go through this activity to really help identify what are your top 10 values in life. And that can sound so simple, right? But if I actually sat down and most ask most people, what are your values, most people can say, Oh, I value my family, my friends. And then beyond that, they’re like, I’m not so sure. And it’s really important to get clear on what these top 10 values are for you. Because when we do feel anxious, we can really struggle with indecision, we can have a hard time knowing how to take action in our lives. And then we can find decisions are being made for us. So when you have your values in place, that’s your compass. That’s your grounding. And that is going to be that cornerstone for you when the anxiety is leveling up your waters and making things so confusing about how to approach life, come back to your values. Also, I’m a bit of a behaviorist at heart. You know, our brains, quite frankly, are largely pretty negative, the brain sends us anywhere from 70 to 90% of negative thoughts per day, and they’re typically repetitive in nature. Many of us we shame ourselves for these thoughts and we buy into these thoughts, right? If, if the brain is telling me I’m a bad mom, I’m not good at this. I’m failing. So many of us we unfortunately buy into these thoughts, instead of realizing, you know, what a thought is just a thought, does it actually have truth? And so it’s really key that we show ourselves behaviorally. You know what I can do these things in my life. The key is to not avoid, right whether that is going to maybe you have social anxiety and you’re so afraid to go to that mommy and me group because you’re worried you’re gonna look like you’re falling behind or you don’t know what you’re doing. Go to that group, right or, you know, if you need to have a tough conversation Maybe with a mother in law or a father in law about maybe some of the things that they’re doing, as a grandparent, have that conversation don’t avoid. Because every time we avoid, we’re putting another penny in the bucket of anxiety where we’re telling the brain, ooh, you couldn’t do that you were too afraid to handle that you’re not strong enough to handle that. And every time we face a fear, it’s like a wave, that wave of anxiety spikes up. But it does, in fact, go down and the brain eventually has to buy in, oh, maybe you are capable. After all, maybe you are resilient. So that’s why I’m a huge behaviors, because we have to show ourselves just how capable as parents we are, and give ourselves that opportunity to see the credit there. And honestly, that’s one of the best things you can do. If you have impostor syndrome, whether that’s at work or as a parent, show yourself, don’t just tell yourself, give yourself that evidentiary proof that you can do this.
Love all of that. Now, I know, you gave us some things that we can do ourselves to start to work through our anxiety. But I was wondering as far as like getting support, because a lot of times, we feel like we have to do it all by ourselves. But we have family members, partners, friends, spouses that can help us in, it’s just some times it’s just hard to communicate, you know, what we’re going through and like what we actually need? So how can moms communicate their anxiety to those people around them so that they can get the support that they need?
Oh, I love this question. You need to be specific about what you need. You know, sometimes people can get confused if they don’t know what exactly we need. And they can kind of get into that freeze mode of like, oh, I don’t know what to do here. And we see this in crisis situations to this bystander effect. We’re kind of psychologically wired, that people will tend to kind of put their hands up and say, oh, sorry, I don’t know how to help you. And so when we’re in tough situations, we literally need to point to someone, call them by name and explicitly say, Hey, can you help me with a laundry? That would be such a huge help? Hey, would you be willing to pick up a meal for me, it would make a huge difference, being really specific, because like I said, otherwise, people will say they want to help us. But then we get into these murky waters, right, where we’re not seeing what we need. And then people don’t want to make assumptions about what we need. And then nothing gets done. So the more specific about it, the better it can be. I think that’s really, really key. And you know, especially with our partners, with our spouses and our family members, to be honest, and to share, if we are feeling anxious and stressed, we can want to put on that tough armor, and act like we’ve got it all together all the time. I have so many clients, so many moms who feel like they’re weak, if they express that they’re struggling, or that they’re failing in some way, I’m always reminding folks is such a sign of strength to ask for help. And this is something we want to model to our kids to, to not be so independent, so individualistic, that they push that help that community away. You know, it’s really interesting, millennials, and even more Gen Z are being labeled as the loneliest generation. And I have to wonder if part of that is because we have cultivated such a society of individualism, where we feel like we’re doing well, if we don’t ever need help from anybody. In turn, we can really isolate ourselves in that. And, you know, it’s going to be really interesting for me becoming a new parent live literally in a matter of weeks, to see how that plays out for my husband and I have noticed that come up even for the two of us where you know, people will say you can have family come stay with you are you going to have at night nurse, anything like that. And we did end up hiring a doula who has been so amazing throughout this whole process. But we do kind of find ourselves bristling a little bit of like, oh, no, we don’t want the parents like spending the night like we don’t want people like really, you know, visiting too much. And I think you know, there is something for that, like, very special bonding time with the baby. But I’m noticing that even for the two of us how we are kind of pushing off help a little bit. And I’m getting curious about that. Like, what does that mean? And I met wanting to let people are able to see my mess, you know, and, and wanting to put on that brave face. So it affects me too. And talk to me in a month when I may be saying Yep, my mom’s been living here two weeks. So we’ll see how it all plays out.
Yes, definitely. I will definitely check in with you and about give you a month from now and we’ll chicken because yeah, it it seems like you got it now. But yeah, I think take all the help you can Yeah.
That’s what everybody keeps telling me. Yeah, exactly.
Yes, yes. Now I wanted to ask you one really, I think is a really important question. And one last question about warning signs and red flags. Now, you’ve given us a lot of great tools. You’ve helped us to understand the difference between stress and anxiety. But I’m just wondering if there are warning signs or red flags that indicate that a mom who’s listening has anxiety that requires professional intervention? And what those warning signs or red flags would look like?
Yeah, this is really important for us to talk about. And as I do, I’ll tie in some elements of depression and some elements of psychosis and mania, because we see that come up as well, though, very rare. You know, when it comes to something like a generalized anxiety diagnosis, you want to look for signs like insomnia, if you’re really struggling with sleep, irritability, are you snapping at your spouse? Or are you finding that you’re retreating and kind of ghosting away? Are you noticing restlessness, you feel like you’re just a motor that you can’t slow down, you can’t stop muscle tension in the body, worrying that feels completely out of control. These are some cues that it may really have reached this generalized anxiety level. Now, typically, what we see in the Diagnostic Statistical Manual, the DSM five, generally is anxiety disorder, typically you meet criteria that when you’ve had those symptoms for six months, now, in the case of postpartum, I think that’s too long to play a wait and see game, quite frankly, you know, if you’re noticing that this is going on, for even more than I’d say, two weeks, where you are finding yourself feeling paranoid, every little thing that is happening with the baby, where you, let’s say, you know, you just stare at the baby for hours on end for days on end, or you’re petrified of someone else, holding the baby or interacting with the baby, if you are keeping yourself up at night, because you’re just so worried about all these potential things. That’s a really important time to start talking to somebody and getting some support and some help. Because the problem is when we go down the rabbit hole, we stop sharing these things that are concerning us, we just can go deeper and deeper into the spiral. We need someone who’s going to help us hold ourselves accountable to do a little bit of what we call exposure and Response Prevention therapy, of really starting to see, okay, I can sit and handle someone holding my baby, or okay, I can, you know, I can allow my kiddo to go to school, and that check their location multiple times a day, you need someone that’s going to help hold you accountable behaviorally, so that you can start to break break that chain of anxious behavior that’s happening. Now. Like I said, I think it’s important to address depression and psychosis and mania in this conversation too. Because depression and anxiety in particular, there’s often so much overlap. And where I really see it play out for folks is if you’ve been anxious for a long time, you start to feel hopeless and helpless about it, you start to feel like, Oh, this is my new reality, I’m always going to feel this way, it’s never going to get better. And when that’s the case, that is a recipe for feeling depressed, right? Because we feel like, well, this is just my new normal. And we need to start working with providers to remind ourselves, it does get better, there is hope for this. And you know, what we see the best treatment in these situations is typically therapy and medication together. And I think it’s really important for mamas to know, there’s nothing wrong, if you need medication to help you out. You’re not failing any in any way. These are like purely biological situations, so much of the time, we call this endogenous depression, where there’s imbalances, and the brain needs some support, just as you would be glasses if you were having trouble seeing. And so really being compassionate to ourselves and our bodies, if that’s the support we need. And then lastly, that piece, like I was mentioning about psychosis, though, it’s rare, it is important to be attuned to that. Because sometimes all those hormonal changes can set off different patterns in the brain. So if you do notice yourself, or other people are giving you feedback that you may be expressing some delusional thinking, or you notice yourself seeing or hearing things that other people don’t seem to see or hear. If you’re noticing any severe paranoia. These are all cues to pay attention to. And again, it doesn’t mean anything is wrong with you that you’re failing in any way. These are biological experiencing experiences that happen in the brain in the body, and we need to get help for that.
I’m so glad that you talked about all of this because you’ve given us some things that we can do ourselves, but I do believe there comes a point where you have to get help and give her professional help. So I’m so glad that you you answered that question. And definitely make it okay. Like, it’s okay to get the hell out. It’s okay. Like you said, if you need the medication and things like that, because yeah, we can’t sit here and keep pushing on and thinking like, oh, it’s gonna be okay, we’re just gonna push ourselves further and further down that line, and things will only get worse. So I’m so grateful for you and for this conversation that we have. And I am like, so glad that we talked because I’ve been taking notes here too. I definitely will put the links to the freebie that she mentioned, as far as my values guide. I’ll have that in the show notes above. But if there is a man that’s listening that wants to connect with you learn more about you. Where can we find you online?
Absolutely. So I met Dr. Loren cook on Instagram and tick tock, I love posted a fun good tic toc on a pretty regular basis. And I’m always posting mental health content on my Instagram as well. You can join my email list and we’re offering something really fun right now for folks who pre order generation anxiety, you get my 47, free to you anxiety proof Decision Making Guide. So this is a really great tool for anybody who struggles with indecision, is looking for more clarity in their life and really wants to stop letting the anxiety dictate the choices that they make in their life. So be sure to get yourself that if you preorder generation anxiety. And I’d love to connect with anybody who may need that support.
Awesome, awesome. And like I said, I’ll have all those links in the show notes. Again, thank you so much for coming on and sharing all this I am so happy that we were able to chat and so grateful that I was able to learn all of this from you.
That’s a pleasure to get to be with you. They thank you so much for having me on.
Now that is it for this episode of the happy mom podcast. To find the links in show notes that were mentioned here. Head on over to Real happy mom.com/ 210 That’s 210 And make sure you stay tuned for next week for another full episode. Take care and with lots of love